![\"Xie](\"http:\/\/www.chinesepen.org\/english\/files\/2017\/01\/Xie-Yang1.png\")
Xie Yang<\/p><\/div>\n
Continued from Part One<\/a><\/span><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n (The interview started at 9:23:32 a.m. on January 5, 2017)<\/strong><\/p>\n Chen Jiangang<\/em><\/strong> (<\/em>\u9648\u5efa\u521a, \u201cCHEN<\/strong>\u201d): Today Lawyer Liu Zhengqing (<\/em>\u5218\u6b63\u6e05) had to go back. Let\u2019s continue our interview.<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Okay.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> At the time you were put in Room 207, you hadn\u2019t slept for all of the 11th and half a day on the 12th\u2014that\u2019s at least 30 hours. Did you ask for time to sleep? Were you tired?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Very tired! But they always had someone coming in, so I couldn\u2019t even shut my eyes.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Describe what happened after you got to the room.<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> After I got to the room, police kept coming in one after another to ask me questions. No one showed any identification, wore a uniform, or told me who they were. Sometimes there were two of them, sometimes three, and sometimes more than that. They never stopped coming to ask questions. Sometimes it lasted around a half-hour, sometimes more than an hour. They made no records of the interrogations. In any case, they didn\u2019t let me sleep. When they left, there was always someone by my side. When the interrogators left, the \u201cchaperones\u201d (\u966a\u62a4\u4eba\u5458) would be there. On the first day, the chaperones basically weren\u2019t around, though. Plainclothes police kept coming in to question me\u2014I was constantly being interrogated.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What questions did they ask you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They asked about my family background, my social ties, how many women I had, how much money I made a year. They also asked about the Qing\u2019an case (\u5e86\u5b89\u6848). Things like that. They never took notes or wrote up a statement. I found out later that more than 40 people were responsible for interrogating and investigating me, start to finish.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What time did that kind of questioning end on July 12?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> It continued until 7 p.m. Then they said an official was coming to see me. It was Wang Tietuo (\u738b\u94c1\u94ca), head of the Sixth Division of the Changsha Domestic Security Unit\u2014he was the so-called \u201cofficial.\u201d He came to tell me to confess and admit my crimes. He also said: \u201cThis is a designated place for residential surveillance. We will ensure reasonable time for you to rest. But the law doesn\u2019t specify what \u2018reasonable\u2019 means\u2014this is up to us. If we think two hours of sleep a day is enough, then you get two hours to sleep. If we think one hour is enough, you get one hour. If we think half an hour is enough, you get half an hour. If we think five minutes is enough, then you get five minutes.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What else did he say?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> I asked them how they, as police, could interpret the law like that? Wang Tietuo said: \u201cYou\u2019re now under residential surveillance in a designated location. Your only right is to obey. You need to understand your own identity: you\u2019re a criminal suspect.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What next?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Wang then said things to intimidate me, the gist of which was that it would be bad for me if I didn\u2019t obey them. In sum, he was threatening me. Wang and several others spoke to me like that for several hours up until midnight. By that point, I\u2019d been awake for over 40 hours and was incredibly tired. They let me sleep then.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> How long did you sleep?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Until 6:30 a.m. on the 13th, when they woke me.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What took place on the 13th?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Let me explain. During the seven days from the 13th to the 19th, I had contact with two types of people: either interrogators or chaperones. The interrogators would come in five shifts every 24 hours to question me. The chaperones worked in pairs for three eight-hour shifts. But when the interrogators came in, the chaperones would leave\u2014they weren\u2019t present.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Can you give more detail about the interrogators\u2019 shifts?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> The first shift lasted from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. The second went from 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. Shift three went from 6 p.m. to 11 p.m. The fourth shift lasted from 11 p.m. to 3 a.m. And shift five went from 3 a.m. to 8 a.m.<\/p>\n The first four shifts involved endless interrogation, but they didn\u2019t ask questions during the fifth shift. They said it was to give me time to sleep. I was supposed to sleep from 3 a.m. to 6:30 a.m., but that was just what they said. I didn\u2019t get the full 3\u00bd hours because the fourth shift would always deliberately drag things on until after 4 a.m. They\u2019d let me sleep for a while, but I\u2019d be woken up at 6:30 without question. I was only able to get a bit more than two hours of sleep a day.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Do you remember the names of the people who interrogated you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> There was Zhou Lang (\u5468\u6d6a), Qu Ke (\u5c48\u53ef), Yin Zhuo (\u5c39\u5353), Li Yang (\u674e\u9633), Zhou Yi (\u5468\u6bc5), and Zhuang Xiaoliang (\u5e84\u6653\u4eae). There were others, too\u2014more than a dozen in all. Those are the ones I remember; I don\u2019t know the others. They never showed me any identification or told me their names. They didn\u2019t wear police uniforms. From July 13 until July 19, those were the people who interrogated me. Five shifts. At least three people would question me in the first four shifts, so at least 13 people. I don\u2019t know most of their names, and the transcripts they made aren\u2019t in the case file.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Can you describe in detail how they interrogated you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> First let me tell you what happened overall on the seven days from the 13th to the 19th. I\u2019ve seen the case file\u2014there are a lot of interrogation transcripts from before the 19th, but they didn\u2019t put any of them in the case file. Because I was under residential surveillance in a designated place, I was actually being secretly detained by them. My family didn\u2019t know where I was and no lawyers could come see me. They controlled everything in the room, including me. I was completely under their control\u2014they could treat me anyway they pleased.<\/p>\n During the interrogations, they\u2019d have me sit on a plastic stool, the kind without any back that you can stack up, one on top of another. They stacked four or five of them, so that it was kind of tall. My feet couldn\u2019t touch the ground when I sat on it, and my legs hung down like this. They demanded that I sit up straight and rigid, both hands on my knees, head up and chest out. I wasn\u2019t allowed to move.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> You weren\u2019t allowed to move even a bit\u2014to stretch your back or turn your head?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> No. Zhou Yi told me: \u201cIf you move at all, we can consider you to be attacking us and we can use whatever means we need to subdue you. We\u2019re not gentle with people who attack police officers.\u201d That\u2019s how they threatened me with violence if I moved at all\u2014they\u2019d call it an attack on the police if my face twitched or I lowered my head. I had to ask for permission to drink water or use the toilet.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> How did you have to request permission?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> I\u2019d have to say: \u201cRequest permission to drink water\u201d or \u201cRequest permission to use the toilet.\u201d I needed their okay to take a drink of water, otherwise I\u2019d get no water. They\u2019d make me go long periods without letting me have any water.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Please continue.<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They made me sit there and asked me questions. Each time there would be three or four of them\u2014one right in front, asking the questions; another facing me, to the right; and one behind me, keeping a close eye on me. If I got tired and tried to stretch or move my head, the guy behind me would immediately hit me and berate me, telling me to \u201csit up straight.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What else?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They asked me questions, and I answered. They were never satisfied and so they\u2019d yell at me and tell me to \u201creflect\u201d and \u201cbe straight\u201d with them. They said: \u201cWe have documents and already know everything about you. Don\u2019t pass up the chance we\u2019re giving you here . . . .\u201d They weren\u2019t happy with the majority of my answers to their questions, so it went on like that with them reprimanding and intimidating me, sometimes even insulting me.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Did they record your answers accurately?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They were taking notes at the time, but I can\u2019t say whether they kept an accurate record. Looking now at the procuratorate\u2019s case file, I don\u2019t see any of the transcripts from my first seven days of interrogation.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> You said they threatened and insulted you. What did they say?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Each day\u2019s interrogation was full of these kinds of threats, insults, and reprimands. It was too much! Yin Zhuo was the one who came to interrogate me from 11 p.m. to 3 a.m. every day. After 3 o\u2019clock he was supposed to let me sleep. Assuming that I fell asleep right away, that meant I\u2019d be able to sleep 3\u00bd hours every 24 hours. But each time Yin Zhuo would deliberately drag things on until after 4 a.m. He once said to me: \u201cI sleep very well during the day. Then I get so excited every night at this time because I get to torment you. You see, I\u2019m going to torment you until you go insane. Don\u2019t even imagine that you\u2019ll be able to walk out of here and continue being a lawyer. You\u2019re going to be a cripple . . . .\u201d I was terrified at the time, not knowing what might happen to me.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Talk about your physical condition. How long were you tormented like that?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> It was like that every day from the 13th to the 19th, they tortured me and wouldn\u2019t let me sleep. Every night, Yin Zhuo would say to me: \u201cXie Yang, you\u2019ve been here so long now, have you ever heard a sound outside? These walls have been specially constructed so that no sound can travel outside. This is not a place where you can say whatever you want. It\u2019s a place where you say what we want you to say. Don\u2019t think you\u2019ll get out of here and be able to file a complaint. Let me tell you, filing a complaint will do you no good. This case comes from Beijing. We\u2019re handling your case on behalf of Party Central. Even if we were to kill you, they wouldn\u2019t find a single piece of evidence to prove it was us who did it.\u201d<\/p>\n I was quite terrified then [starts to sob]. My family and lawyers had no idea where I was. If they tortured me to death, my family wouldn\u2019t even know [sobs]. This was the second time in my life that I\u2019d been threatened with death. The first time was in Dongshigu Village [hometown of Chen Guangcheng], and this was the second time. It was the same thing all over again: suddenly I disappear and no one knows where I\u2019ve been kidnapped to.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> How tired were you after deprived you of sleep like that? Did you eventually give in?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> There\u2019s no way to describe that state of not wanting to go on living. On the third day, I broke down. A complete mental breakdown. Yin Zhuo and the others came to interrogate me that night, and they were deliberately trying to torment me. I was already mentally disturbed and began to cry. I begged them to let me sleep for just a few minutes, but they refused and continued to torment me. They wanted me to write my statement, but I told them I really couldn\u2019t do it\u2014I couldn\u2019t even pick up the pen. I tried to rest my head on the table, but they grabbed my collar and pulled me up. Yin Zhuo, Zhuang Xiaoliang and two others pulled me up and said: \u201cIf you\u2019re not going to write, then tonight you don\u2019t get to sleep!\u201d That must have been the early morning of the 16th. So, like that, I was forced to sit there for a full 24 hours without sleep, not even the two hours of sleep. At daybreak the next day, they continued their interrogation.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> All of the statements and transcripts from that time, did these accurately reflect your own views?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Of course not! I had to write my confession according to their demands. If I didn\u2019t, they would torment me to no end. But I couldn\u2019t always write to their satisfaction.<\/p>\n Yin Zhuo gave me three choices for how I should explain my actions as a rights lawyer: \u201cEither you did it for fame, for profit, or to oppose the Party and socialism.\u201d Looking at the case file now, many of the things I wrote or the interview transcripts they kept were not included. They said those documents were no good because they didn\u2019t fit with those three explanations. In one interview I said that I handled cases in a legal way, but they thought that this didn\u2019t fit with the three options they\u2019d given me and forced me to write something myself.<\/p>\n The truth is that I handled cases in a legal way, and that I took on cases when I saw injustice being done. But they wouldn\u2019t let me write down this sort of truth, so it won\u2019t show up in any of my written statements.<\/p>\n Since they\u2019d set out three options, I could only smear myself. I did it for fame and profit, to oppose the Communist Party and the current political system\u2014those words are in there. I had no right to choose whether to write them or not or sign my name to them. All I could do was write, sign. Whatever was written or whatever is in the transcripts, I had no choice. I could only choose from the three options they gave me\u2014fame, profit, or opposing the Party and socialism.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> So, what\u2019s your evaluation of the interrogation records and your written statements in this case? Are they truthful?<\/em><\/p>\n Xie:<\/strong> They\u2019re not truthful. I wrote and signed them according to the demands of Yin Zhuo, Zhou Yi, Qu Ke and the others, under torture and in a state of wanting to die.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Let\u2019s stop here this morning and continue in the afternoon.<\/em><\/p>\n (The interview concluded at 11:24:22 a.m. on January 5, 2017)<\/p>\n Source: https:\/\/chinachange.org\/2017\/01\/20\/transcript-of-interviews-with-lawyer-xie-yang-2\/<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Xie Yang, Chen Jiangang, January 20, 201 … Continue reading