![\"Xie](\"http:\/\/www.chinesepen.org\/english\/files\/2017\/01\/Xie-Yang-and-wife.png\")
Xie Yang and wife<\/p><\/div>\n
Continued from Part One<\/a><\/span> and Part Two<\/a><\/span><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n [The interview began at 2:49:55 p.m. on January 5, 2017.]<\/strong><\/p>\n Chen Jiangang<\/em><\/strong> (<\/em>\u9648\u5efa\u521a, \u201cCHEN<\/strong>\u201d): Let\u2019s continue.<\/em><\/p>\n Xie Yang<\/strong> (\u8c22\u9633, \u201cXIE<\/strong>\u201d): Okay.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Other than not letting you sleep, were there other ways they used to coerce you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yes. They have a kind of slow torture called the \u201cdangling chair.\u201d It\u2019s like I said before\u2014they made me sit on a bunch of plastic stools stacked on top each other, 24 hours a day except for the two hours they let me sleep. They make you sit up there, with both feet unable to touch the ground. I told them that my right leg was injured from before, and that this kind of torture would leave me crippled. I told all of the police who came to interrogate me. They all said: \u201cWe know. Don\u2019t worry, we have it under control.\u201d Some also said: \u201cDon\u2019t give us conditions\u2014you\u2019ll do what we tell you to do!\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What next?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> No one had any sympathy for my situation. They just deliberately tortured and tormented me. Every day, I had to sit there for more than 20 hours, both legs dangling in such pain until they became numb. Afterwards, my right leg began to swell from top to bottom. It was summer, and my thigh and calf were both severely swollen.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> After your leg began showing symptoms, did they stop interrogating you and provide you with any medical treatment?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE: <\/strong>No. That went on for more than 20 hours a day. They just gave me some Chinese medicine to rub on my legs.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Did you ask for time to rest because your right leg was swollen?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Sure, but it was no use. Yin Zhuo (\u5c39\u5353), Zhou Yi (\u5468\u6bc5), Qu Ke (\u5c48\u53ef) and the other police who interrogated me were deliberately trying to torment me\u2014they even said so clearly. Making someone sit on a \u201cdangling chair\u201d for 20 hours a day is a kind of slow torture. It causes lumbar pain and pain in the legs, but it\u2019s slow and doesn\u2019t leave any external injuries. When you add sleep deprivation to that, this is a way to torture people that doesn\u2019t cause external injuries and doesn\u2019t leave any scars.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Considering the sleep deprivation and the \u201cdangling chair,\u201d were the transcripts of your interrogations and the statements you signed factual?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> There was no way to match the facts. They weren\u2019t happy with what I wrote and made me rewrite it. Every time they didn\u2019t like my answer to one of their questions, they would keep asking me again and again. They clearly told me: \u201cWe\u2019ve got all the time in the world. You\u2019re in residential surveillance for six months. If you don\u2019t behave and obey, we\u2019ll continue to torment you.\u201d<\/p>\n They wanted answers to fit their three options\u2014fame, profit, or opposing the Party and socialism. I could only choose from those options. To get it over with sooner, I wrote whatever they wanted me to write. Later, I completely broke down. It got to the point where I was crying as they questioned me and had me write statements. I really couldn\u2019t write anymore. I told them to type something up and I\u2019d sign it, no matter what it said. I didn\u2019t want to go on living. I couldn\u2019t take it anymore\u2014I just wanted to sleep for a little while.<\/p>\n CHEN: <\/em><\/strong>Did anyone beat you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yes, I was beaten many times by Zhou Lang (\u5468\u6d6a), Yin Zhuo, Zhuang Xiaoliang (\u5e84\u6653\u4eae) and some others.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> When and why did they beat you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They said I wasn\u2019t being cooperative in the way I was writing statements. They wanted me to write according to what they wanted, even if it didn\u2019t match the facts at all. They tried to force me, and I refused. There were other times when I was simply too tired and I couldn\u2019t even pick up the pen. Mostly it was during the fourth shift, from 11 p.m. to 3 a.m. When I couldn\u2019t write, they would beat me.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> How would they beat you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Several of them would come over and pull me up. Then they\u2019d split up the work: one or two would grab my arms while someone used their fists to punch me in the stomach, kneed me in the stomach, or kicked me with their feet.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Was there a camera in the room?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yes, there was, and it should have been working normally. Every time they beat me they would drag me to a blind spot just below the camera where it couldn\u2019t capture what they were doing. I knew what they were thinking, so each time they beat me I would deliberately move to a spot where the camera could see what was going on. Later, Yin Zhuo said to me: \u201cYou think the camera is going to help you? I tell you, we control the camera, so don\u2019t think it\u2019ll do any good for you to be in its view. This is a case of counterrevolution! Do you think the Communist Party will let you go? I could torture you to death and no one could help you . . . .\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Did those beatings lead to any injuries?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> There were no external injuries\u2014they just wanted to cause pain. They\u2019d mainly target the lower body, from the stomach down, so there\u2019d be no visible injuries.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Did you give in after being beaten by them?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yes, I wanted to be done with the interrogations as quickly as possible, even if it meant dying. So whatever they wanted me to write, I wrote. I also signed a lot of interrogation transcripts that they typed up. They didn\u2019t let me make any suggestions, let alone make changes. At first I demanded to make changes, because the transcripts were all lies. But they didn\u2019t agree and said I was being dishonest. Later, I could only sign the transcripts. Whatever they wanted to type up, they would type up. I had no right to make any objections or changes.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Were there other ways that they tortured you or caused you discomfort?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yes. Between the 13th and the 19th, they also used smoke to torture me.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Can you explain what that entailed?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> There were several people among the police who interrogated me who weren\u2019t the ones mainly responsible for the interrogation. But eventually their shifts would come up. A couple of them would sit on either side of me, and each would light some cigarettes and put them together. The two of them would puff on the cigarettes and then blow the smoke toward my face while I was forced to sit there. All of the breathing space around my head was smoke. I said: \u201cIt\u2019s not too appropriate for you to do that, is it?\u201d They said: \u201cWhat can you do about it? We\u2019ll smoke like this if we want!\u201d So they kept on \u201csmoking\u201d me like that. It wasn\u2019t to force me to confess; it was just to torment me and make me miserable.<\/p>\n After the first seven days, they figured I\u2019d already been tormented. So later when they\u2019d make me sign interrogation records, if I didn\u2019t cooperate or raised objections or asked for changes, they\u2019d say: \u201cXie Yang, do you need to be sent back to the furnace for a while?\u201d They were threatening to torture me again. They also said: \u201cXie Yang, we\u2019ll torture you to death just like an ant.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What else did they say to you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> From start to finish, they used my family and child to threaten me. They said: \u201cYour wife is a professor at Hunan University\u2013surely she must have \u2018economic problems\u2019? [e. g. corruption<\/em>] If you don\u2019t cooperate, we might be forced to expand this matter. If you don\u2019t come clean and explain things clearly, we\u2019ll go after your wife without a doubt.\u201d<\/p>\n They said: \u201cAnd we know your brother\u2019s a civil servant, a minor official. Surely he has some problems we could investigate? And we know you have a nephew who has bright prospects and works at the Hunan Bureau of Letters and Visits. Is he really that clean? Don\u2019t force us to go and investigate them.\u201d<\/p>\n They also threatened my children, saying: \u201cYour daughter Xie Yajuan is a student at Bocai Middle School in Changsha. If her classmates and teachers knew that her father was a counterrevolutionary, could she even raise her head up? How could she ever get a job as a civil servant in the future?\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What else did they say?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yin Zhuo and the others also threatened the lives of my wife and children. The exact words were: \u201cYour wife and children need to pay attention to traffic safety when they\u2019re out in the car. There are a lot of traffic accidents these days.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Did you ask what he meant by that?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> No, I knew what it meant. I was extremely scared then. They used my wife and children to threaten me [starts to sob]. I said: \u201cIf that\u2019s what you want to do, there\u2019s nothing I can do about it. I\u2019ve answered all of your questions truthfully. I\u2019m locked up here. If that\u2019s what you want to do, there\u2019s nothing I can do about it.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What then? Did they say anything else?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They said a lot. For example: \u201cWe know all about how many women you have out there. Don\u2019t make us tell your wife\u2014it would have an impact on your family.\u201d I said, if you\u2019ve found something go ahead and tell my wife. They thought I was just like them.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What else?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They threatened to investigate my friends. Yin Zhuo said: \u201cIt would be easy for us to expand the scope of our investigation. We have plenty of resources. If you don\u2019t cooperate with us, we can investigate your friends one by one and put them through the wringer. We\u2019ve got the resources and we have our methods. In this case, there\u2019s no limit to how far we can take the investigation\u2014that includes your law firm, your friends and colleagues. We\u2019ll go after whomever we please and deal with them however we want.\u201d This type of threat permeated the entire interrogation process, especially during the first seven days.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> And then? What else did they say?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They mainly used my children to threaten me [starts to sob]. Yin Zhuo said: \u201cWe\u2019ve arrested a bunch of lawyers. Lawyer Zhang Lei (\u5f20\u78ca) has been arrested in Zhejiang.\u201d I cried for a long time when I heard that. Zhang Lei had a newborn baby at the time I was arrested, just over a month old. I was very sad when I heard that Zhang Lei had been arrested and cried for a long time because I was worried both for his child and for mine.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What next?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Zhuang Xiaoliang and Yin Zhuo said to me: \u201cWe\u2019re mainly looking at your attitude. Your case is the number one case up above. You think you can go to Beijing and file complaints about mistakes we\u2019ve made\u2014don\u2019t you think Beijing knows we\u2019re putting you through all this? We\u2019ll make you suffer any way we please!\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Was your ordinary access to food and drink ensured while you were in residential surveillance in a designated location?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> No, they deliberately didn\u2019t let me drink water. At 11:30 a.m. someone would deliver food, but each time they wouldn\u2019t let me eat and deliberately dragged on and didn\u2019t let me eat until after 1 p.m. By that time, the food was already cold.<\/p>\n They didn\u2019t let me drink water during their interrogations. If I wanted a drink, I needed to request permission but they wouldn\u2019t let me drink. They\u2019d deliberately put water in front of me, but they wouldn\u2019t let me drink any\u2014that sort of thing. They\u2019d put the water in front of me, but they used control over one of my basic needs\u2014the need to drink water\u2014to make me miserable.<\/p>\n Once I was so thirsty that I started drinking from a bottle of water they\u2019d put in front of me. Zhou Yi snatched it away and started beating me, saying that I\u2019d tried to attack a police officer.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> During the period of residential surveillance in a designated location, other than beatings, threats, the \u201cdangling chair,\u201d sleep deprivation, and smoke in your eyes, were there other methods they used to coerce you?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> They also tried to induce me to implicate and frame other people. They said they wanted me to inform and expose.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Explain what happened.<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> It was probably the middle of August 2015. The first round of concentrated interrogations was over. Because I couldn\u2019t take the torture anymore, I\u2019d signed anything they wanted me to sign. That was over. Yin Zhuo and the rest now wanted me to implicate and frame other people. Yin Zhuo said to me: \u201cXie Yang, you\u2019ve only been a lawyer for three years. Even if you did bad things every day during that time, it wouldn\u2019t amount to much. If you implicate other members of the Human Rights Lawyers Group (\u4eba\u6743\u5f8b\u5e08\u56e2), you\u2019d be performing meritorious service and could get lenient treatment. You could implicate Liu Weiguo (\u5218\u536b\u56fd), Liu Jinxiang (\u5218\u91d1\u6e58), Chen Jiangang, Zhang Lei, Qin Yongpei (\u8983\u6c38\u6c9b), Zhu Xiaoding (\u6731\u5b5d\u9876), Pang Kun (\u5e9e\u7428), Chang Boyang, (\u5e38\u4f2f\u9633), Ge Wenxiu (\u845b\u6587\u79c0), Sui Muqing (\u968b\u7267\u9752), Wen Donghai (\u6587\u4e1c\u6d77), Cai Ying (\u8521\u745b), Yang Jinzhu (\u6768\u91d1\u67f1), or Hu Linzheng (\u80e1\u6797\u653f). Inform on any one of them, and you\u2019ll be performing meritorious service. We\u2019ll report it up to our superiors and get you released on bail.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> How did you answer?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> I said there\u2019s no organization called \u201cHuman Rights Lawyers Group\u201d\u2014it\u2019s just a chat group, not an organization. I said I\u2019m an independent person and don\u2019t take orders from anyone. I don\u2019t have a lot of contacts with other lawyers and haven\u2019t had too many interactions with the lawyers you\u2019ve named. I don\u2019t have anything to offer you. I refused to frame other lawyers.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> Besides implicating other lawyers, did they want you to inform on anyone else?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yes, Yin Zhuo also named a number of citizens, like Ou Biaofeng (\u6b27\u5f6a\u5cf0) in Changsha and Zhai Yanmin (\u7fdf\u5ca9\u6c11) in Beijing. There were a bunch of other names that I didn\u2019t recognize. Yin Zhuo and the others wanted me to inform on and frame them. They brought in a bunch of documents on Ou Biaofeng for me to look at in order to get me to implicate and expose him. They prompted me to try and get me to say what communications I\u2019d had with them, what sorts of cases I\u2019d handled with them, and that sort of thing. I refused.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> What did Yin Zhuo say after you refused?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> He was very disappointed. After another week, he came to see me and said: \u201cForget about the others. We\u2019ve asked the main responsible persons in the Changsha Domestic Security Unit. They said if you can report on and expose things that Hunan lawyers Cai Ying (\u8521\u745b) and Yang Jinzhu (\u6768\u91d1\u67f1) did\u2014even one of them is enough\u2014they\u2019ll give you lenient treatment and we can release you on bail.\u201d<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> How did you reply?\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> I said I wanted to perform meritorious service but that I hadn\u2019t had much interaction with Yang Jinzhu and hadn\u2019t ever seen him in Changsha. I said I wanted to report on and expose any wrongdoing, but I didn\u2019t really know anything about him and didn\u2019t have any materials to give them. As for Lawyer Cai Ying, I said even though I knew him we hadn\u2019t worked together and I didn\u2019t have any materials on him either. I said we\u2019d only eaten a few meals together and had a few drinks\u2014no interaction beyond that.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/em><\/strong> That was the second time you refused Yin Zhuo. What did he say?<\/em><\/p>\n XIE:<\/strong> Yin Zhuo said he was giving me a chance and I was squandering it. He said I was asking for punishment by not accepting the opportunities he was offering me.<\/p>\n CHEN:<\/strong> Let\u2019s stop here for today and continue again tomorrow.<\/em><\/p>\n (The interview concluded at 4:56:06 p.m. on January 5, 2017.)<\/p>\n Source: https:\/\/chinachange.org\/2017\/01\/21\/transcript-of-interviews-with-lawyer-xie-yang-3-dangling-chair-beating-threatening-lives-of-loved-ones-and-framing-others\/<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Xie Yang, Chen Jiangang, January 21, 201 … Continue reading